In any case, here's a piece picked up by Spectrum Magazine blog today:
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In the world of Facebook, Adventists on my news feed have been sharing a CNBC article describing the Vatican's calls for a "World Central Bank." Many have reposted it as a clear "sign" of the end time and warning to others: Rome is calling for a global, financial authority, precisely in an effort to control buying and selling, freeze the assets of Adventists, and slaughter them. On one page, I read: "the signs couldn't be clearer!," "this thing is wrapping up soon!," etc.
Of course, the reality is far less "sexy." Here is the relevant paragraph:
Specific attention should be paid to the reform of the international monetary system and, in particular, the commitment to create some form of global monetary management, something that is already implicit in the Statutes of the International Monetary Fund. It is obvious that to some extent this is equivalent to putting the existing exchange systems up for discussion in order to find effective means of coordination and supervision. This process must also involve the emerging and developing countries in defining the stages of a gradual adaptation of the existing instruments. In fact, one can see an emerging requirement for a body that will carry out the functions of a kind of “central world bank” that regulates the flow and system of monetary exchanges similar to the national central banks. The underlying logic of peace, coordination and common vision which led to the Bretton Woods Agreements needs to be dusted off in order to provide adequate answers to the current questions. On the regional level, this process could begin by strengthening the existing institutions, such as the European Central Bank. However, this would require not only a reflection on the economic and financial level, but also and first of all on the political level, so as to create the set of public institutions that will guarantee the unity and consistency of the common decisions.
The idea of a World Central Bank is an old one, especially common since the 1940s. Economists who propose such an institution claim it is necessary within a global economy to level the international playing field, and encourage developing economies. Unlike the national central banks that presently dominate the global economy (e.g., the U.S. Federal Reserve, the Central Bank of China, etc.), a world central bank would not be hindered by narrow national interests (e.g., accommodating national budget deficits, military and domestic spending, the rescue of failing domestic institutions, or currency valuations for trade advantage, etc.)--interests that disadvantage poor and developing nations in the global economy. Rather, as a transnational institution, it would provide a secure and consistent experience for all nations. It would likely create a global reserve currency, regulate interests rates fairly, lend to nations, supervise other banking systems (against fraud), and act as an intermediary between indebted societies and foreign creditors. If a politician, economist, or journalist wrote in favor of this view (and thousands have), it would arouse little interest in the Adventist community. It's the stuff of WSJ or NYT op-eds. It's the stuff of graduate seminars in Finance.
But now that the Pontifical Council or Justice and Peace (PCJP) has dedicated a paragraph(!) in a dense forty-one page document to the proposal, Adventists are raising an apocalyptic alarm.
Sadly, not one Adventist reaction I have read has had anything to do with the substantive issues in this discussion; not one of them has gone so far as to at least gain some familiarity with the concept, and appraise it appropriately. Never mind that many of their political leanings might make them more sympathetic to bold solutions to assist the developing world. Most of my friends who have posted this link are average, balanced, mainstream Adventists; only one is especially conservative (on an Adventist scale). I decided to engage one friend employed by an Adventist University on the subject. Anyone would categorize him as a mainstream/centrist Adventist. Disappointingly, even after introducing him to the benefits and concerns surrounding such a solution, he still weighed this recommendation not on its theoretical merits within the fields of Finance or Macroeconomics (its proper context), but from a conspiratorial mindset (claiming he is "not surprised" the PCJP favors this plan is because it would give the pope a future "ability to influence the worlds economy," and establish "a unified world under a single religion").
Needless to say, my confidence in the Adventist "center" is not especially high today.
What is so alarming in the Adventist reactions is a baseless desire to attach prophetic import and conspiratorial speculation to virtually any statement released by any Vatican office. Nothing in the Adventist prophetic paradigm requires this type of reactionism; in fact, I would suggest it is antithetical to any healthy, careful, and measured consideration of biblical prophecy. One can believe in the Adventist paradigm without viewing this document as anything more than a Vatican office's response to contemporary discussions of macroeconomics, social justice, and subsidiarity (an office whose consultants include University professors, social ethicists, economic theorists, and theologians).
My friend noted, "For [Adventists] it is a duty to point out what they see as the 'signs of the times'". Of course, this little recommendation is hardly a biblical "sign." Nothing in Revelation says that the Beast will prefer a world central bank to an oppressive network of powerful regional (e.g., EU) or national central banks. No prominent Adventist has previously suggested such an institution is necessary to the realization of the Adventist prophetic paradigm. And lest we forget, 167 years of Adventist interest in such minute "signs of the times" has proved a futile exercise. 19th century Adventist fascinations with "the signs of the times" absorbed them in constant speculations during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the Civil War (including Mrs. White's speculations of a British-U.S. War), post-WWI interest in calendar reform, the Kennedy presidency, etc. The two-century-long record of failed "signs" speaks for itself.
My friend cynically responded, "there are other ways to help developing countries other than creating a global financial authority." Of course, this is exactly why the PCJP released this document: to spur thoughtful discussion on just ways of regulating international trade and currency. The PCJP merely produced recommendations building upon the statutes and principles underlying the IMF and Bretton Woods Agreements, and in keeping with its defined goal: 'to stimulate the Catholic Community to foster progress in needy regions and social justice on the international scene.'" Its recommendations are certainly not binding on Catholic economists and social ethicists, many of whom will no doubt take exception to various suggestions in the document, and indeed already have. Such responses are usually rooted in such wide ranging concerns as appropriate oversight for such an institution, concerns it could undermine national sovereignty, conservative/right-wing ideologies, and in at least a few cases state-side, American exceptionalism. Adventists should at least ask themselves, to what extent is the Adventist reaction to such a proposal truly representative of biblical concerns, and at what point is it more a reflection of conservative politics, “NWO” alarmism, knee-jerk confessionalism, and the like?
Simply put, Seventh-day Adventists should pick their fights more wisely. When did it become necessary to take issue with the latest economic reflection issued by the PCJP? When did an economics debate become significant to proclaiming the "Three Angels' Message?" What are these reactions reflective of but a psychosis that oversteps the secure parameters of biblical prophecy and has devolved into a form of conspiracism?

14 comments:
But it isn't just Adventists. This is how Drudge has been playing it--indeed, the whole mainstream media. Some Catholic commentators (and some who understand Catholicism) have pointed out that the PCPJ isn't that important. One person responded by citing B16, Caritas in Veritate, calling for a "world political authority." I looked at the original and noticed that was in italics. I checked the footnotes, and saw it was a quote from Pacem in Terris.
Would the Catholic church see itself as this "world authority"? No. To imagine that is to totally fail to grasp the Catholic distinction between the ministry of the clergy and the lay apostolate. The clergy teach and seek to form the conscience, in this case, giving guidance according to Catholic social justice principles. Thus, in speaking of any world authority, emphasis is also laid upon personalism, rights of individuals, and subsidiarity. But the pope/bishops expect lay people will think about these things and then, if they see wisdom in them, work toward them. It is an attempt at persuasion, not dictation. This is something very Roman that Americans (including American Catholics) don't get. American Catholics (so anyone who has worked in the Vatican tells me) think these pronouncements are to be obeyed in lockstep fashion. Thus the conservatives get legalistic and the liberals roll their eyes and get defensive and Protestants say, "I told you so." And the Italians shake their heads and say, "Where did they get this idea from?"
"Rome is calling for a global, financial authority, precisely in an effort to control buying and selling, freeze the assets of Adventists, and slaughter them."
Has a date been set? And do we need reservations? Will there be a two drink minimim?
At times, I share Hugo's frustration and sadness with the Adventist conspiratorial paranoid mental model of the world. It is this mental model, they hold so intimately, which causes such a spiritual blindness and paranoid hatred, that when viewed by someone on the "outside" can only result in frustration and sadness.
Frustration from the barriers erected to block out hearing reason and the Spirit, and sadness from the understanding that comes through love for our fellow pilgrims.
Adventists who hold and cherish this world view and mental model of life and religion will be held captive to it until they come to love Jesus more than they hate Catholicism. Then and only then will the scales fall from their eyes and they will begin to see clearly.
I speak for no one else on here. This is my opinion...but my opinion based on 30 years of personal experience. Was it Judy Collins who sang, "I've looked at life from both sides now"?
God bless all!!!
Mike, you may say what you want but maybe it is you who are blinded and/or in denial. You said (or implied) that you have looked at life from both sides but if you are blind, it would not make much difference.
Also, you draw the conclusion that because some people are suspicious of the Catholic church it means that they "hate Catholicism". This is a fallacy as there is a long way from suspicion to hate.
This is also a fallacy because you want to present the Catholic church as not deserving this suspicion.
When we look at history, we see that the Catholic church was not above reproach.
When we look at the church in modern history, we see that she has not been above reproach either (for example, look at Catholic Spain under Franco, dictator who died in 1975).
When we look at recent news, we see that the church is not above reproach either.
So, maybe people have good reasons to be cautious when the church is involved (even if it is possible that some may be paranoid and reading too much into things).
Christ asked his followers to be always vigilant. Maybe you call this being paranoid but I will cal this taking Jesus seriously.
Hi Still,
The conclusion I draw is NOT that those who are suspicious of the Catholic Church, or even the Adventist church for that matter, harbor hatred, although I'm sure some suspicious people harbor hatred toward both. But no, that is not the conclusion I draw.
The conclusion that I draw is that those who accept, believe, promulgate, and promote outright falsehood and lies about the Catholic Church do so out of hatred for it. The embrace of lies and continued promotion of them against the Catholic Church is neither vigilance nor love. It is a deep seeded hatred that in most cases is not even recognized by the person who holds it. The Bible says that there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof leads to death.
The falsehoods and lies leveled against the Catholic Church by Seventh-day Adventists is neither love nor vigilance, it is hatred. I stand by my conclusion having suffered from that malady myself for the majority of my life.
The latest video that I received in my email (and from a new SDA acquaintance of mine for whom I have come to hold the deepest respect) talks about the alteration of Ellen White's books in China. And guess who is behind this alteration according to some Adventists? That's right, the Jesuits of course...who else could have done that. I don't know if you have seen this latest video, but I'm willing to bet that there are quite a few SDAs reading this post who have seen it, and most likely believe it.
This embrace of falsehood and lies against The Catholic Church, and not just mere suspicion, is the reason for which I draw my conclusion. Please be clear about that at least!
God bless all!!!
Mike,
I would agree that some SDAs go overboard when they see everything as a sign that the Catholic church is taking over or that every time there is an event the Jesuits are being it...
But speaking of suspicion or hatred, what to say when Catholic priests say all kind of falsehoods about SDAs (above all when these SDAs are organizing evangelistic meetings)? Are these falsehoods promoted out of hatred too? Or is it possible that the priests really believe what they say? Is it possible for people to be critical and believe what they believe without being accused of hating other people (even if their beliefs are wrong or even if they are mistaken on a particular issue).
The reason the Catholic church is not credible sometimes is that she likes to use that "anti-catholicism" card when she is criticized or even on trial for real crimes (here I am referring to some Catholic officials who were prosecuted for real crimes and who said that those who were prosecuting them were anti-catholic).
Of course these Adventists are not really concerned with justice on a global scale - that which involves political cooperation on a global scale to meet the issues facing an increasingly globalized economy. Adventists are intellectually bound here by their interpretation of scripture and their phobia of ecumenical cooperation. If the Kingdom of God is taken seriously, then political solutions to problems - including a world monetary institution - should be considered and treated on their merits. These ideas should not be simply written off as some conspiracy.
I think fundamental to Adventists' complete misunderstanding of apocalyptic literature in scripture is failure to give proper place to the inaugurated Kingdom that Jesus established at his first advent, particularly in his death and resurrection to defeat evil, death and the devil. Christ is literally Lord of the World. And if Christ is Lord of the world, and if Christians truly reign with Christ, then we must be involved politically, on a global scale if necessary, to bring about the justice and mercy that Jesus told us to be concerned about.
Several doctrinal misunderstandings hinder adventists here. Their rapture theology - where the whole world is going to hell and a hand basket, but never mind we all going off to heaven - means that they just don't engage with real world problems. Their Millenium understanding, where Christ is not Lord of the world yet, but establishes his Kingdom only after the second coming means that there is a fatalism with current events and that only until Jesus comes back at the end will justice be restored to earth. This escapist and dualistic philosophy is pervasive in Adventism as with a number of evangelical denominations in America. It is anti-gospel when taken to it's logical conclusion.
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To Still and others,
Thanks for the awakening comments. There is the voice of reason written in them. Mike may have the same spirit of those SDA's who he thinks are overboard in there thinking of Catholics. Im glad Still handled you Mike. It sure is easy to judge huh? And Lady Dragon, what are you thinking?
lol Jesus is hearing us. SDA's believe that the antichrist system is the papacy the bible speaks of not individual catholics. Just like Israel as a nation doesn't accept Christ but individuals may and will. From their perpsective, if the papacy's deadly wound is healed, and has power once again to lead the world(like they did during the Dark Ages where freedom of conscience was heretical and deserving of death), then of course they should think it is a beginning sign of the last great persecution before Christ comes again to end things.
Lady Dragon sounds like she has that same spirit. Im sure she was joking. And simmmo, global cooperation is only attainable if all are in Christ. The tower of babel was a fake coming together which God separated because sin was present in all hearts. This world coming together or world government is the same thing. It will never happen while those who are inspired by Satan's spirit co-rule because they only conspire to persecute and kill Christ's servent just as they did Christ himself. The world is going to destroy itself as you can see in the world financial problems and our sinful practices as a whole. It is only because Jesus returns that justice is restored and sin is no more. It is anti-gospel to think otherwise. Did you think we as a whole earth can have a righteous 1000yr reign before Christ comes? Nope. Impossible with sin still reigning in humanity. Can two walk together, unless they agree? No earthly kingdom will stand for long. Christ will come to take those who believe to heaven to reign with Him for a 1000yrs. While this earth is desolate and all are dead, Satan with his angels will be chained here with a lot to think about. There will be no one to tempt for a thousand years. Then after that time, New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven containing Christ and the saved. Then the resurrection of the evil takes place and Satan is loosed in which they dont repent of their sins but try to surround and battle the New Jerusalem. But fire from God comes down and consumes them all. This same fire consumes the whole earth except the New Jerusalem which is a safe haven just like Noah's ark. Satan will burn the longest but even will be consumed eventualy. Hand Christ will always battle until he is destroyed. Then the meek will truly rebuild and inherit and return until their own land. Only then will we see peace on earth and all being a cooperative whole under God's government rule not beforehand.
Continue studying the bible my friends. I welcome any return comments. No hate here.
Hi rhb_3000,
I read with stunned interest, your summary of the Ellen G. White story. Stunned because of my wonder as to where in the Bible you come up with the points you make; and interested in that as you wait for Mrs. White's predicted persecution of Adventists in the United States and the world to take place, you make no mention of the Catholics currently being persecuted and killed throughout the world, nor of the attack on the Catholic Church and the sacredness of human life that we stand up for, as the government of the United States attempts to trample upon our first amendment rights. Maybe it is because you haven't been following the news, or maybe its because you just don't care about religious liberty for Catholics...and since you do not hate Catholics (and therefore I would like to assume that you do not hate the Catholic Faith that defines us as Catholics), I hope it is just because you don't watch television or read newspapers.
But like you, I have no hate here either, and I love to study the Bible. And perhaps you have not studied the Bible, or read the Bible where the Book of Revelation talks about fire being rained down on the wicked and Satan.
I have this question as to whether or not you have read the Bible regarding this, based on the comment you made that satan would burn the longest but eventually be consumed. Really? Where do you get that prophetic insight? I know it is part of the Ellen G. White story...but here is what the Bible says in the book of Revelation regarding that event:
"Rev.20:9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
The Bible does not say that satan will be burned longer than anyone else, or that he will eventually be consumed. It says that he will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
This will be a good point to start with...since the Word of God is so clear about it.
Continue to study the Bible my friend! No hate here...just a lot of questions.
God bless all!!!
As an adventist I have to first ask my fellow SDA friends what they are so affraid of. Go with me for a moment. If the SDA group is correct in seeing this as the last step before a New World Order and the hastening of Jesus's return then ok what the problem??? In my church we keep saying "Jesus come soon". So why then waive the alarm flag and trying to fight it? Let Him Come...unless you know in your heart that your suit is an empty one and you are more familiar with you keyboard than you Bible, whats your trepidation in meeting Jesus? Now back to the article. There are a ton of good reasons to get the whole world ecomony to work together as one, I can see that this would stop all the daily crashing of countries and crazy inflation across the globe if Rome, or Iceland or Russia, New Zealand want to throw ideas in the ring, let em then lets sit and discuss (realistically) what each plans good points are so we can agree on one that works. A Monetary takeove and NWO startup this is not. We can make sure of that through dialogue and letting the world see that having any Religion with a hand in the money jar doesnt work.
Hi rhb_3000,
I while back I asked you this:
I have this question as to whether or not you have read the Bible regarding this, based on the comment you made that satan would burn the longest but eventually be consumed. Really? Where do you get that prophetic insight? I know it is part of the Ellen G. White story...but here is what the Bible says in the book of Revelation regarding that event:
"Rev.20:9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
I have still not been able to find anything in the Holy Bible to support your view of the punishment of Satan.
Here is what the Ellen White Story says:
Satan rushes into the midst of his followers and tries to stir up the multitude to action. But fire from God out of heaven is rained upon them, and the great men, and mighty men, the noble, the poor and miserable, are all consumed together. I saw that some were quickly destroyed, while others suffered longer. They were punished according to the deeds done in the body. Some were many days consuming, and just as long as there was a portion of them unconsumed, all the sense of suffering remained. Said the angel, “The worm of life shall not die; their fire shall not be quenched as long as there is the least particle for it to prey upon.” {EW 294.1}
Satan and his angels suffered long. Satan bore not only the weight and punishment of his own sins, but also of the sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him; and he must also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused. Then I saw that Satan and all the wicked host were consumed, and the justice of God was satisfied; and all the angelic host, and all the redeemed saints, with a loud voice said, “Amen!” {EW 294.2}
Where do you find this in the Holy Bible?
Perhaps some other SDAs can lend rhb_3000 a helping hand?
God bless all!!!
Mike
I assume you don't believe in the Mrs. White writings,her writing are looked at as the testimonies refereed in Revelations, so it's quite interesting for me. Otherwise i would like you to enlighten me on that one.
Hi Liwakala,
You said:
"I assume you don't believe in the Mrs. White writings,her writing are looked at as the testimonies refereed in Revelations"
"By whom are her writings looked at as the testimonies referred to in Revelation?", is my question to you.
God bless all!!!
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